Introduction

Class

For Marx class is not a descriptive or definitional category, but is a key part of understanding the historical and dynamic process of capitalist exploitation.

Marx argued that profit was sourced in the production of surplus value: M¹-C-M². M money is used to purchase C commodities that produce value that can be sold as a surplus M². The C commodities are composed of fixed and variable capital. Variable being labour power. Labour power has the unique quality of a commodity being able to produce more than its cost through adding value using fixed capital. The surplus only becomes profit when the goods or services are realised by being sold on the market.

If the workers who possess the labour received back all the added value they produce there would be no profit. So the purchaser or owner of the means of production C, is in a permanent struggle to maximise the control over the amount of the surplus to maximise profits, using all the economic and social power at their disposal. 

The working class then are those who only have the ability to sell their labour power to exist. Potential employers want to pay as least as possible in wages and once employed keep costs controlled by workers being exploited by being both dependable and disposable. The individual worker is therefore in a very weak market position against the capitalist power of the ownership of the means of production. Collectively, however, it can be a different story.

In an earlier paper we quoted estimates that about 80% of the world’s population by this understanding. It is very much the case ‘we are many, they are few’. Which raises the question why if the working class is a majority, does this exploitative power relationship continue to exist.

This then raises the question of ‘working class consciousness’ the extent to which workers as a ‘class in themselves’ come to see themselves as a ‘class for itself’. In part it is a structural question that there are divisions and graduations of workers but to the most part it is political and revolves around how workers consent is managed and subject to fear and repression; how workers are divided; how collective organisations and parties become incorporated; how workers are vilified and marginalised when they can’t sell their labour We have suggested in another paper how these political challenges could start to be overcome.

What about independence? 

First, using Marx’s understanding of the working class we can see that there certainly is a working class in Cymru – and although around 50% are employed in the public sector, privatisation and austerity has put most public sector workers in the same exploitative position as private.

Second, overcoming exploitation requires a transformative change in ownership and control of the whole process of production. As we have argued ‘production for the needs of people, planet and peace not profit’. This can only come about through working class political unity and action resulting in state power.

Third, as argued before, the British state remains the executive arm of capitalism and the rich both through the economic power of capital and the absence of constitutional democracy. transformation will only come about if this is challenged.

Fourth, if it is possible for the working class to win power in one of the countries of the UK on a collective democratic and ecosocialist transformatory programme and move forward to implementation, we should support all direct action and political initiatives that might bring that about. What these could be have been the subject of two earlier papers. 

Fifth, this does not mean a pull up the drawbridge ‘socialism in one country’ argument but to be argued for within the context of understanding that there is a global working class, and moving in one state, could become an example, and indeed inspiration for others. The political case and international organisation now must always incorporate this position.

Possible questions

What do we make of Marx’s idea of class today?

Are the concepts a class in itself and a class for itself relevant, and are they patronising? 

What of the other classes and the possibility of alliances?

Is it accurate to consider Cymru a class based society?

If the working class needs a collective and international movement to effectively challenge the power of capital, doesn’t the argument for independence weaken and undermine this collective case?

Do we envisage the struggle for Independence & Socialist transformation in Cymru as 2 separate stages or as a single uninterrupted one?

What stance do we take in relation to campaigns & struggles for an independent Cymru which leave the issue of social transformation aside?  Ir are for an independent but capitalist Cymru 

23.6.2025 Workshop report

Points made in discussion.

• The working class, as in Marx, remain the prime agent of change, through large scale action such as mass strikes, but also through campaigning direct action. There is a need to extend out the reasons for this action as workers solidarity organisations and the welfare state through austerity have been stripped away. This has left activists with more to do with less, but mobilising workers around what matters most is the way to re-organise. It is clear that workers know from their own experience and self activity they are being ripped off and exploited. 
• It is necessary to link areas of struggle in Cymru and with the demand for independence to relate them dialectically so they are re-enforcing and interdependent,
• A key issue is the extent to which there is a ruling class in Cymru. A majority of private employers are based outside the country, so there is a weak petty bourgeoisie, who would not benefit from independence. The working class are thus the only class in Cymru who could benefit and only if independence was anti-capitalist. 
• It is very important to follow through on Marx’s analysis to recognise that the working class, as those whose main means of survival is to sell their labour power, is international and can be seen to compose around 83% of the global population, and in particular is growing in countries like Bangladesh and the Philippines. So although the class struggle take place within a state actions will have impacts internationally.
• There are examples of workers taking direct action not just to resist but also to undermine production for profit by producing socially useful products, international examples were given as well as the Vickers and Lucas proposals in the UK.
• There is a scepticism  if not opposition to state alone ‘elite’ initiatives such as nationalisation and we should consider how community control such cymudedoli and local control could work instead.
• It is almost impossible to escape the influence the economy has over people’s lives and that some elements of the working class were able to achieve better conditions and were placed in an ‘managerial’ in between situation, although that is now declining and the differences are less material. There is a need to find a balance between the economy we have now and asking the key question: what is it for. 
• There is a key problem about how to relate the ideas of liberation to ordinary people. The nuancing of people’s class position within the economic structure seems to give the impression there is no escape, but seeing the whole is key.
• The importance of self activity was stressed as the way of making a link between being trapped and learning how transforming society is possible. [The link to our previous workshop on winning power was referred and placed in the chat.] 
• Democratic control has to be at the centre of how, what and why transformation is about and that means challenging the British state. There is a profound democratic deficit at the heart of the state. It will constantly undermine any move toward industrial and workers democracy. Hence the importance of linking the demand for a democratic, republican and independent Cymru with ecosocialist transformation.
• The key to making the political links is to realise that resistance over issues creates a consciousness of being ripped off and exploited by employers so through experience people come to know who the enemy is.
• Through developing our demands and policies toward the needs of people, planet and peace we are building hope for the future for workers and Wales.
• It is also important to realise that the British state was founded to support the accumulation of money and control of foreign markets. If we don’t have a capitalist class in Cymru we do have a class of petty bourgeoisie or compradors, who still related to this endeavour.  Austerity was about continuing to do this, bailing out the banks while our services were cut.
• It is important also to recognise that being working class and only surviving due to the ability to sell their labour is becoming clearer to many more people in this situation. There is a process of proletarianisation.   
• It is important that the working class banner is picked up in Cymru and the independence movements. Workers control is critical both as a demand and in practice through self activity. In this regard it is also important to ensure that Cymru culture needs to be addressed and the issue of democratic and human rights such as opposing the FPP voting system. 
• One point we need to discuss more is how the the case we have made for the dependent relationship between class and independence in Cymru relates relates to the international struggle in concrete terms.
• In relation to this we need to be very aware of the dangers of economic nationalism, such as a specialist niche economy, such ‘pulling up the drawbridge’ opens the door for the extreme right.

Points made in the chat

• the following line, “England will still rule you through her capitalists” is the really important part of that to me

[Referring to Communist Wales pamphlet]

• one of the reasons we need to have this distinct working class welsh socialist movement is that if Reform wins the Senedd and there isn’t this alternative it will kill the welsh nationalist movement
• The levels of acceptance and trust in organised labour (trade unions) and community / social action groups, as representatives of the working class, are crucial,  I believe. So, enabling them to adopt and take forward our messages and programme. As Len says, we’re weak as individuals but powerful as organised and accountable. 
• Replying to “The levels of acceptance and trust in organised la…”:I think perhaps the greatest challenge for us as welsh nationalist socialist will be that currently no unions support independence. we have to look for ways to overcome that
• Replying to “The levels of acceptance and trust in organised la…”:
• Yes, it’s a challenge in our unions, that we have to remind English members of the Welsh dimension to policy-making and organising but it is getting better.
• Replying to “The levels of acceptance and trust in organised la…”:
• I’ve had this discussion in my own union and made some progress, mainly when I make points about the practicalities required when organising in Wales
• my last point on independence is that one of the key opportunities is that we can stand properly in solidarity with oppressed nations around the world! as the Spanish volunteers said “the antifascist barricade stretches from tonypandy to madrid”

Later comments from participants

1.  think the report is a bit harsher on nationalisation as opposed to cooperatives than the conversation was in the room. I specifically did a little defence of it, arguing that the democratic nature of any potential welsh socialist republic would mean a much more appealing & accountable nationalisation than those that capitalist states have performed

2. one point raised that I’d like included is that self activity and mass participation in the struggle develops not just the class & national consciousness of workers but also their competence and confidence in organising

3. at the end I mentioned in the chat that an independent cymru would have a free hand to act in support of oppressed groups across the world (Palestine, Sudan, indigenous peoples) and in solidarity with the global working class (through openness to refugees, aid to various global workers movements and material support for nations like Cuba)

When we were contributing our views about class – essentially from a Marxist perspective  – particularly the working class in Wales – I noted in the “chat” about the necessity of working in and through our organisations which are recognised and (broadly) trusted – trade unions & social / community action groups. I extend the latter to include organisations that defend public services and those for environmental, economic & health protections and improvements, as securing our wellbeing as workers and, dare I say, as consumers. I tied this to our intentions to act collectively (stronger) rather than individually (weaker).

Summing up

At the end a point was made that this was a more basic conceptual discussion and as such politically links with the workshops, particularly the one on winning power – a bit like us developing mortar to hold the bricks together. So as such there are no specific demands beyond linking back and perhaps providing a contextual introduction to the draft manifesto that will be prepared for the Cymru’n Codi launch conference in the Autumn. 

This discussion paper and workshop report remains open for further comment.

These references have been submitted as part of the discussion and more can be added.

Submitted papers:

Independence? What has ‘The Union’ ever done for us?(1)

Whispers Of A Forgotten Nation: The Writings Of Dr. D. Ceri Evans

Socialism For The Welsh People: 2023 Edition With New Foreword From The Welsh Underground Network

Only Socialism Will Liberate Wales / Dim Ond Sosialaeth All Ryddhau Cymru

How To Win An Independent, Republican And Ecosocialist Cymru / Sut I Ennill Cymru Annibynnol, Gweriniaethol Ac Ecosocialaidd